[18:16 UTC] *** Logging started. *** [11:16 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome :) [11:17 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Poof [11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have a look at this change Ubit [11:17 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: not guilty! [11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://github.com/secondlife/viewer/commit/d00b6e4216bb308ae075d90dfa871c902d765f8d [11:17 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We had a commit, fix up some constraints in light projectors, that was about it really. [11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They have hardcoded 4 UUIDs that are now settings in the viewer [11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: StartUpChannelUUID NearByChatChannelUUID NotificationChannelUUID AlertChannelUUID [11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is this something we need the viewer to be able to set in opensim? [11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is for vivox interface? [11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or can we use heir hardcoded UUIDs [11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is used int ehcahnnalemanager code [11:18 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hello *smiles* [11:18 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi lyr [11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but voice? [11:18 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: hihi lyr [11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly [11:19 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: never seen those ids i think [11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: llviewermessage [11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LLNotificationsUI::LLChannelManager::getInstance()->killToastsFromChannel(LLUUID( gSavedSettings.getString("NotificationChannelUUID")), OfferMatcher(blocked_id)); [11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm notifications.. [11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I frankly had not seen them before either and I could not find any reference to them in opensim server side [11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so [11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose we probalby don't care [11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: or they made some changes we never did notice [11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)) [11:21 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is absolutely a possibility given the mess that repository is by now [11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I do recall that there are pseudo uuids for the various channels, including the one that sends group notices, but I think we use the same uuids, if they are used at all. Might just be something that isn't actually needed [11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well guess we need to see what breaks :) [11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if viewers have hardcoded things, we need to have same, ofc [11:23 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi jamie [11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we have those "magic things" in a lot of things [11:23 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a load of hardcoded crap in there, and user settings that are not needed [11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such as anything marketplace [11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or pathfinding [11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeha can be that also [11:24 AM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi all sorry i'm late [11:24 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: send alert should use notification channel I think, similar thing for script writing to owner, but there are no uuids in any of that so might just be unused stuff [11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some of that might even sit on libomv [11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is used in the viewer code, but they seem to be of the opinion the UUIDs can be hardcoded [11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is a good assumption for the one instance of SecondLife [11:26 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose if we actually need them in the future that code can easily be reverted [11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well they keep changing soem hardcoded uuids like for default skies etc [11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think i had to change one recently ?? [11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeou did [11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: settings such as AudioLevelWind I suppose is useful to not hardcode [11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Should be easy test if they are really concerning the notifications, cause you use send alert on region to see if that gets through, although I only see that sending bytes, no fixed uuid or even a field for one anywhere [11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: clientview just has send bytes to client [11:29 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Same with ossl errors just refer to channel by int not uuid [11:30 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Meanwhile I have some good news to report [11:30 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002 listens [11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: After fiddling around trying to make prebuild happy I just copied over the csproj from a working xunit test project and voila visual studio decided it wanted to play along [11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That means I can now start actually re-writing and writing new tests [11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The issue of how to make it play along still remains as prebuild has a fixed way of creating the project files from the xml, meaning two options [11:32 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Either editing runprebuild scripts to add the csproj file and the reference in the sln for it or edit prebuild itself to write specific test projects [11:34 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: apologies for my appearance [11:34 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: not used to hg ing [11:34 AM PT] Jagga Meredith: you're wearing clothes. that willdo [11:34 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I understand [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes we are ignoring you clifford.Hanger [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i mean your appearance ;) [11:35 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: lmao [11:35 AM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: ^^ [11:37 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: am I allowed to ask questions? [11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: ls [11:37 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I think that was a question, ... [11:37 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: lol [11:37 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: yes *grins* [11:37 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: if it is on topic, everyone will be happy *smiles* [11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: always feel welcome to ask [11:38 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: didnt want to interript anyones flow [11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: We love questions. [11:38 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Feel welcome to ask [11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: ok here goes 1) voice [11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 2) do we know anyone who can code recode reverse enginner vivox? [11:39 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 3) costs involved? [11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: You really want to know if there is an alternative to Vivox and what it costs, right? [11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: 3 little ?s [11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes [11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: In a project I supported long ago, we tested other voice options with mixed and less favorable results [11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no point on reverse vivox [11:40 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: They are sticking it to you also, eh? [11:40 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: i have read previous minutes [11:40 AM PT] Lyr Lobo nods [11:40 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: There is a guy who reverse engineered slvoice.exe, but he only got it working on Windows. [11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I think Mumble was tried at some time in the past. [11:41 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes i read that [11:41 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Needs help on Linux and Mac [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: issue is about voice servers.. no point on reverse vivox if they don't open a server for you [11:41 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: That would be a start for linux people - where is his source? [11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right. [11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: You can run Vivox on Linux under Wine. It works quite well. [11:41 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: ok if we knew the rough cost [11:41 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Isn't the Muble open source ancient by now [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said IMA ppl was doing Echo, a implementation of mumble [11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Even with the viewer running native on Linux. [11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea of current state [11:42 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: yes [11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: we would know what the future might hold? [11:42 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have a mantis ticket that goes through some of that already and the options that are out there [11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: yes [11:42 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: does it give an idea of costs? [11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: It's worth looking at voice options again. Vivox is part of Unity and cannot be trusted. [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( think they found a use rights problem with ICE the protocol used to talk with mumble servers.. seems it is not that free.. but i was just told.. on a oscc meeting years ago ) [11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The bigger question would be not what it would cost, but how much the community would be willing to spend on it. How important voice is for them. [11:43 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, what I read was that they are raising prices drastically, so even Cliff is likely to have to pay real money now [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: vivox can't be trusted also becasue they told me directly they do not what anythign related to opensim [11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem with both macOS and increasingly Windows is that Apple and Microsoft does not allow such code to run clinet side without a lot of wrangling [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: see... they need to make $$$ and opensim model does not fit on that [11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: exactly [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: unity is not there for opensource projects.. [11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: but are we talking $5000 [11:44 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: or $50000 [11:45 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gotta pay the suits [11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus the code to get voice going on the two systems will have to tap into wildly different system libraries [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well unity costs are around $200000 min.. no idea abotu vivox only [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well about last week code changes [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did accept a little fix on lsl projector focus range [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we had 0,20 and should be -20 20 [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there was some confusion abotu that, also on our mail list [11:46 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 20 is full focus and smaller numbers are blurry? [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc the code change was offered as a github push request [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that also included almost all changes a opensim fork did :) [11:47 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, negative focus so you can do fake distant objects? [11:47 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oo ok [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no idea joe.. [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is on lsl wiki.. [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel on viewers actually [11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, that would be useful for making lamps [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you look to the setting is does -20 20 [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on fs at least [11:48 AM PT] Joe Magarac: There is a way to abuse projectors to create a portal which appears to have some distant thing behind it. [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh? [11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel i did not went look in details [11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I've seen a demo, but would have to find it. [11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: just checked range on viewer [11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll have to experiment with it for my lamps :-) [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so i did refuse that PR and did apply the range fix by hand [11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: taken and on grid [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://github.com/opensim/opensim/pull/14 [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that was it.. [11:51 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Seen some messy pull requests, but this one takes the cake this year [11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I like his photo [11:51 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: hi cuga [11:51 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Contribution policies and processes are on the wiki by the way [11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hey Cliff [11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, does anyone here do anything with metaverse-standards.org? [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact can't use github PRs.. that is not our main repo ( could but would be confusing) [11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not me joe :) [11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure abotu Lyr.. that seems afk [11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, I don't think that trainwreck concerns us much, different/wrong idea of "metaverse" if they have an idea at all [11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK. I signed up Animats and now I get invites to forums on avatar interoperatbility and such. [11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: lol [11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: given teh board members, I'd say no [11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://metaverse-standards.org/about/board-members/ [11:54 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Oh look paid memberships, it's IMA 2.0 xD [11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably someone hoping to latch on to FB - err Meta, to suck $$$ out if it [11:55 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Bingo [11:55 AM PT] Lyr Lobo chuckles [11:55 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: caught me working [11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyways [11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I reverted all teh profile code last week [11:56 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Joe, I'm not in that organization. i was in an IEEE standards group [11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: avatar profile that is, so now it is working as before for the opensim version [11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Nice [11:56 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: there are several that represent standards. it is not easy to keep track *grins* [11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only need to add back oensim support in the network manager, and we are hopefully good to go [11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim even [11:57 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I know a few people that will be happy when that goes public [11:57 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Myself included [11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The version running on test on SL is being constantly downloaded to my surprise; both macOS and Windows versions [11:58 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: is this : [11:58 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog [11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah sl viewer made a mess with profiles [11:59 AM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: the place for the latest dev code? [11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we need the older TPVs code.. not the new sl thing [11:59 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Have to go, next meeting. [11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: bye Joe [11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I don't get why they changed it to something that is heavier sending more bytes even [11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Seems they should do best reducing network overhead [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have pretty much every old repository up and running on http://dayturn.com:5000 [12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well they only had http one [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both HG and git [12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i mean website one [12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: they decide to put in back on viewer UI [12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and did that new mess [12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: i told abotu some issues here, months ago [12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( why i did refuse to follow those changes ) [12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so we do need old TPVs code.. or new code with fixes for us [12:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The idea was good, partial update, but execution a total trainwreck as usual [12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: nahh the old code was better [12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: supposely they where coping fs profiles code.. but.. well.. something [12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: not going to repeat what i told months ago ( well if i did remember ;) ) [12:04 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Correction, noted that AvaCon is a Principle Member of the Metaverse Standards Forum and I joined their research team last month *grins* [12:04 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: crazy busy tho [12:05 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm crazy busy also, need to run to RL. Buy all! [12:05 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye Kayaker [12:05 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: bye Kayaker [12:05 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Laters, Kay [12:06 PM PT] Clifford.Hanger @alternatemetaverse.com:8002: thanks all of you for what you do for OS [12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other issue? [12:07 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: nothing new here [12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Thank you! [12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Take care, Clifford [12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok rl calls.. so see you all next week :) [12:07 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Many thanks for your wonderful support. See you next week [19:07 UTC] *** Logging stopped. ***