[18:33 UTC] *** Logging started. *** [11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome :) [11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as many noticed, we haf no code changes during last week [11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: had even [11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The vacation continues I guess, I got almost nothing done either [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well rl things and such :( [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also no major bug reports [11:36 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I'm still plugging away on Sharpview and trying to document exactly what happens as the viewer connects to a region. I have a state machine model now. [11:37 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Speakng of bugs, I found a yellow jacket nest in RL yesterday, only got stung once before getting away. [11:37 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *gives Andrew's avatar some vitamin C [11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: having losts of fun joe :) [11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What is probably worth mentioning is that since last week Unity, who now own Vivox, have decided to jump off a cliff and nuke their entire reputation by making ridiculous pricing changes. How this will affect Vivox is unknown. [11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There is a YT video of building foam aganst such nests Kayaker [11:40 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, Unity owns Vivox. Did not know that. Ouch. [11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it does for some years now joe :) [11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Open source alternatives? [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: prices where abotu vivox or all their products? [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: still none joe [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we do have freeswich.. but not that good [11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see all the OSL conferences the last 8 years for opensource alternatives [11:42 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: We have two mantis tickets that discuss options and various projects that were started, but nothing concrete [11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we had a old support for mumble [11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK, so Mumble came and went. What was wrong? [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: IMA ppl working on a new implementation, but still not public [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mumble needs a replacement for the slvoice.exe [11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: B) [11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: IMA isn't doing anything, they never did [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and we did need to do it by hand bakc the [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: back then [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for many users that was confusing.. so.. wnet out of use [11:44 AM PT] Joe Magarac: IMA? [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but is the only free solution that does 3d voice [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: same ppl doing the scengate viewer [11:45 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well not exactly, there is Teaspeak [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: scenegate ( a variant of alchemy = [11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem with all these open source alternatives is they throw in a lot of proprietary functionality to make it competitive and and something people find wirthwhile paying for [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and on multigrid environments we have the compatibility issue [11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that too [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: vivox did provide a commun ground [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but well no longer free [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and did refuse to give me access to the dev portal when i told then it was for opensim [11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Unity is in a massive row over payments these days anyway [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( tehre is nothing therr for opensim they told me ) [11:47 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ultimately likely that we need to build a new viewer plugin and server to connect it to and very likely that can't run in OpenSim directly either and probably should not [11:47 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I am looking at Teaspeak, but I don't speak abstract c yet [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well unity needs to make $ [11:47 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Is there any need for the [11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: what to say... [11:47 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: server side to need to worry about the voice? [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: good they did gave us access for so many years for free [11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: server needs to manage logins, cre3dencials, channels etc [11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they never sent me any payment claim [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: like per parcel channels.. etc [11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: group chat [11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: For voice calls interconnecting between users handling things on region level would be a massive pain to implement, so likely it would be a per-grid thing and on that level [11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do have voice on group lol [11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't, but we would want to have [11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well yeah [11:49 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: I hear that the IMA guy working on voice got a replacement for slvoice.exe working in Windows, got discouraged when it didn't work with Linux or max clients. [11:49 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Going through the trouble of building a new thing might as well go for full support [11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Right, an open source alternative means running a voice server on a low-latency host. [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but personal and per parcel/region would be fine [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes joe there is also that extra cost for grids [11:50 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Anybody here up on voice codecs in Linux? Mac? [11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm there may also be the clones of HiFi audio [11:50 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Huh. [11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the name was hifi no? :) [11:51 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: A lot of the Ham people are basing their voice stuff on Asterisk PBX and its codecs, etc. but I don't think there are any stereo or multi-channel codecs there [11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: build a telegram client into the viewer and use their voice chat [11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: High Fidelity pivoted to an audio product. [11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess main codec now is opus [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on the free market [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( opus does no do 3d directly i think ) [11:52 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I think you have to accep that if you want open source, you have to run a voice server somewhere. [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: bc that it weas speex ? [11:52 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we need to lobby the EU to force Apple to open iMessage and Facetime [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes joe that is a must [11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think on muble there are still services you can rent [11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now that the EU got USB-C and replaceable batteries sorted, they need a new challenge [11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: That's useful. [11:53 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The serverside only needs to support channels and spatial audio, the bigger issue is the viewer plugin since that isn't open source [11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and on other SIP based solutions freeswitch may use [11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The new challenge for Apple is that the EU says they have to allow other app stores in under 6 months. [11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I like that one [11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc the most used viewers we have only support viviox [11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I fully support it [11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: snd the long outdated viviox 4x [11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple babysitting everyone is getting old [11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The interface in the viewer sends XML to and from the Vivox client, right? [11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: So something that talks the same XML could be a drop in replacement. [11:54 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_coding_formats [11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it has own protocol joe.. and beening ll, possible xml ues [11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: there is a old public spec of that protocol joe [11:55 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK. [11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Anyway, looks like time to be thinking about moving away from Vivox, before Vixox moves away from us. [11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: for old SL https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Voice/Technical [11:56 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Joe, it already has for most of us [11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I mean technically if you have an afternoon of time, wireshark and a working Vivox setup I don't think it would be that hard to document most of te protocol [11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Encryption being the biggest pain point [11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Why> [11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well vivox moved away from version 4x long ago [11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Legal problems? [11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess only keeping servers for ll [11:58 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go, next meeting. Bye. [11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: have fun [11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus SLVoice.exe is a black box [11:58 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not a big one though [11:59 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ain't that much in it, still annoying to break open though [11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: big enough that nobody have reversed it [12:00 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Didn't have a good enough reason or enough monetary incentives I guess [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Maybe Lisa Laxton (not sure if that is spelled right) can have a go at it [12:00 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: RL calling, I must run [12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ct Kayak [12:01 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Buy all! [12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Lisa can barely tie her shoes [12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well rl calls me [12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other opensim issue? [12:03 PM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: have a great week yall [12:03 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: no new issues [12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok see you all nex week if not before :) [12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody tried MySQL 8.1 yet, right? [12:04 PM PT] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all [12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye [12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: fell free to enjoy the openbar... all drinks are fresh ( as 3 years ago..) [12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [19:04 UTC] *** Logging stopped. ***