[18:03 UTC] *** Logging started. *** [11:03 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:03 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: For the record... Hello, everyone. :) [11:03 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hello *grins* [11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh we had a few tiny code changes last week [11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well both after last meeting :) [11:05 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fixed a issue on casting a vector from string, a space btw last comma and z value did force a result [11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: (mantis 9159) [11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and the same for rotation.. [11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and mantis 9158: allow it on prim inv to non-mod prim inventory if same owner and allowdrop was set on target [11:07 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: this is not clear from lsl wiki but does work like that at sl [11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well that was it :) [11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: err "allow it" means allow a prim do give a item from its inventory to another prim [11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ..to.. [11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh i only started typing and you all fallen asleep? [11:10 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: by script? [11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeap, llGiveInventory [11:10 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:10 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, so not to another prim, to someone's inventory [11:11 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that makes more sense [11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no to a prim [11:11 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: prim to prim, how? [11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: destination can be a prim [11:11 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ohhm never knew you could do that.. kk [11:11 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: neither did I [11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGiveInventory [11:12 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: would think that could be a griefing vector [11:12 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: destination prim has to be droppable? [11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if not mod [11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact that is kinda impleis by the allowdrop [11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: implied i meant [11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: really from that wiki, allowdrop should only be relevant for attachments [11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but it is like that *there* [11:17 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I am curious about the prim to prim drop with llGiveInventory -- If you transfer a script with this feature, is script running turned off in its target, and require taking/rezzing to run? (like it does when copying between prims in same linkset) [11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well i did not went check all the details :) [11:18 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok I will have to test :) [11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: just did change the permission check :) [11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure how useful that prim to prim is.. abut well a old thing it seems [11:21 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Two prims exchanging a notecard back and forth neither wanting to hold on to it [11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Could always throttle that to only allow one per second [11:22 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: brb [11:22 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llGiveInventoryList might require more than one/sec [11:22 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think it might have been used for a sort of messaging system back in the day where notecards were distributed to prim based inboxes [11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: possible [11:23 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in-world mailboxes [11:23 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:23 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same sim [11:24 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a feature I never used! I'm curious but doubt I have a use for it [11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and how are you viewers goin on? gavin ? joe ? [11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: (your.. going..) [11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I published new builds of the preview and new version of the Mac viewer toda [11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: catchup and optimizations [11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nice [11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: pbr? [11:25 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no :-) [11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:26 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back [11:26 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for some reason people seems to download the no PBR versions for SL use in the hudreds [11:26 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hundreds [11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gee I wonder why [11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah SL seems to had allowed FS to bypass the 3 versions rule for the 6.6.17 [11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( no idea why ll has any word on that.. but wahtever ) [11:27 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Gavin's viewer is more up to date than 6.6.17 and without PBR.. a good combo [11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: feature parity [11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mb they add it to the tpv rules? [11:27 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: bug* parity [11:28 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: License overreach imo, ungrateful at best [11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Given the work tpv tend to input as well fixing ll bugs [11:29 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: judging from the forums people seems to be a bit miffed with the whole PBR thing atm [11:29 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: How dare they xD [11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as usual ll just went fw as soon they had something doing something [11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: broke enviroments? buy new ones... great for business [11:30 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: investor pressure [11:30 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes... "see.. we're competing with Unity" [11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Spoken like a mobile game dev boasting about ditching flash player lol [11:31 AM PT] Lyr Lobo smiles [11:31 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: lol [11:32 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well seems they are doing another try to reduce load... [11:32 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The only thing that I actually like about the pbr changes is the change in color palette which should bring some better color management and clearer text, but that can be had without ugly/slow mirrors [11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mirrors now now off by default [11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: are.. [11:33 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:33 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Seems the llWater in the PBR viewers has reflections even with reflections off". It's really pretty [11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and at start the viewer does downgrade the settings to try to hide the impact [11:34 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I don't really get how they managed to get it to perform this badly given you can do mirrors on a bloody N64 [11:34 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( at first start after using 6.x or even fs release ) [11:34 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I never quite understood this mirror obsession [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ofc now.. you are not a woman :P [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ooops [11:35 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and "materials" obsession [11:35 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :_) [11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Reflections are nice, but you very often don't need full mirrors to get that [11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's the same nonsense with ray tracing really. Most of the time you don't notice it while the performance impact is massive [11:35 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The mirror obsession would make more sense in a first-persion viewpoint, like VRchat. [11:36 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:36 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: how did they justify the cost/benefit [11:36 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They don't need to justify anything is how [11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel and wait for the "gltf scene" things.. [11:36 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: LL are the kings, they are never at fault /s [11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: those will be great for performance also [11:37 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *facepaws* for the 100th time on pbr [11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( and overall framework models coerence ) [11:38 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: joe, how is your voewer going? [11:39 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, hi. [11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ahh the movement issue? [11:39 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Currently struggling with rubber-banding issues. [11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh? :( [11:40 AM PT] Joe Magarac: An object update has a position and a velocity, and I'm overshooting slightly and then jerking back when connected to OS. [11:40 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Looking at logs to try to figure out what's different from SL. [11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: checked the packet order thing? [11:41 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I can change the walking speed modifiers on your sharpview regions, maybe that creates a change that leads to a solution [11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and/or multipath (??) [11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: No, don't mess with that, please. [11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i don't .. its a udp thing :p [11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I'm not re-ordering packets to put them in sequence. [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i did sugest to put a check to see if it does happen [11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: That's not the problem, though. I've tested in clean situatoins. [11:43 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: This is happening any time there is movement and not just when crossing a sim boundary? [11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well im sure it does happen.. just not all the time [11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes. ordinary motoin. [11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I metioned last time the apr library is used for network io by the viewer. Not sure what capabilites are configured for that [11:43 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Sim crossings work better, actually, because just put in the fix I put into Firestorm years ago. [11:44 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Let me look at the logs some more. I may need to put the updates into a spread sheet. [11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well put a packet order check and warning... [11:44 AM PT] Joe Magarac: The whole point of the UDP system is that packet order shouldn't matter. [11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this is ll, haha [11:45 AM PT] Joe Magarac: do the SL viewers re-order based on packet serial number. [11:45 AM PT] Joe Magarac: ? [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and you think ll did read the manual?? [11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the prococol does depend on packet order [11:45 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I am very aware of that. I do tree-ordered reordering for parent and child objects, of course. [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so put a test to see how severe it is.. if any [11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: This is failing with properly ordered packets. My bad, not the network. [11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: More next week. [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and i do think ll does a limited reorder [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on viewers.. [11:46 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I've been busy in RL. [11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but not sure [11:47 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I do two major re-order things. [11:47 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Packets that come in for a region before the region is fully live are held until all the handshaking is complete. [11:47 AM PT] Joe Magarac: And orphaned objects (parented, but parent not known yet) are held until the parent is complete. [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: some maybe from the last time you where there :p [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes seen that LOL [11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( udp does not have TIME:WAIT) [11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: If the region disconnectes, I drop all that. [11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: some maybe on ther wire.. but well rare [11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: If you run Sharpview and open the developer performance window, you can watch the regoins go through their state changes from "Discovered" to "Live". [11:50 AM PT] Joe Magarac: When you've been out of range of a region for a while, the simulator tells you to disconnect from it. At least in SL. [11:50 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Takes about 15-30 seconds. [11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: How does OS do that? [11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess a bit faster.. [11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: OK. Not a problem. [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on tps it does it even faster [11:52 AM PT] Joe Magarac: TPS? [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm on arrival... [11:52 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: teleports [11:52 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oh, distant teleports are different. [11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: That's essentially a login. [11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on walking around.. well guess a little dealy and distance histesis [11:53 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: By distant, you mean within the grid or external to it? [11:53 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Distant here means that, before the teleport, it wasn't within draw distance. [11:54 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: ah so even within a region if the draw distance is smaller [11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: There are three cases for teleports, 1) same region, 2) nearby already-connected region, 3) non-connected region. [11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: 2) is more like a region crossing. [11:54 AM PT] Joe Magarac: 1) is just a move [11:54 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: great, thanks [11:55 AM PT] Joe Magarac: 3) is like a login - cold start [11:56 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't there a #4 (HG teleports) [11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: HG? [11:57 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hypergrid [11:57 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Teleporting between grids. [11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Oops. Don't support that yet at all. [11:57 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Have to relog. [11:58 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Actually, that is a relog. [11:58 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: np. I know I seldom jump between grids that way. [11:58 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: We do it quite often [11:58 AM PT] Joe Magarac: You're switching to a new login server. [11:58 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are coming up on the hour. Does anyone have a question/comment they have been waiting to ask/say? [11:59 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Yes [11:59 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks looks for any raised hands [11:59 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Just a comment [11:59 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Lyr. Go ahead. [11:59 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: We are working on the https://conference.opensimulator.org/ website for the 12th Annual OpenSimulator Community Conference December 7-8, 2024. [12:00 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: It is currently under construction as the new information and Call for Proposals comes online [12:00 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Will be up in the next couple of weeks *smiles* [12:00 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope you are keeping it viewer and operating system agnostic. [12:00 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes. [12:00 PM PT] Joe Magarac: Gotta go. [12:01 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Bye Joe [12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Joe [12:01 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: The Call is not out yet, but will be due October 21, so we will be posting it in the next couple of weeks [12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Joe. See you next week. [12:01 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: many thanks... done with my announcement [12:01 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Have a great week! *grins* [12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you, Lyr. Best ofluck to the people working on the web site change. It is often a lot more work than it seems at first. [12:02 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week, Lyr. [12:02 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Yes, it is, Frans Charming is handling it [12:02 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other last minute questions/comments? [12:02 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: Yes, see you next week. *waves* [12:02 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks waves back [12:02 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye [12:03 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today I will call this gathering to a close. [12:03 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [19:04 UTC] *** Logging stopped. ***