[18:02 UTC]   *** Logging started. ***
[11:02 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:03 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit, Jamie
[11:03 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:03 AM PT]  Bill Blight: Howdy
[11:03 AM PT]  Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Andrew, Ubit
[11:03 AM PT]  Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody
[11:04 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I have something for show and tell, and some questions about animesh on the server and viewer
[11:04 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: What is that object, Kayaker?
[11:04 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: was amking minor changes on http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Connecting
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we had ols sl viewer instructions all over still
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: old..
[11:05 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I'm building a one-prim animesh airplane. It is obvious how to make the gear move, but I was unsure about spinning parts.
[11:05 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: This propellor is not a separate prim it is a "tail" that spins!
[11:05 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: also http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Getting_Started
[11:06 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I can change the speed by loading animations, like this:
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ofc it would be better if wiki was changed by someone that does type in english, not always my case ;)
[11:06 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nice kayaker
[11:07 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I like the white underwear in Step 3 Ubit
[11:07 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i stopped at step 2 :)
[11:07 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is as taken right out of a 1980 NATO catalog
[11:07 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Here is my first question: When you change the speed of a child prim with that viewer side call, it keeps going
[11:08 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: child prims have no speed
[11:08 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has NATO classification winter, under, long
[11:08 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: That other viewer, Ctrl-Alt-Del had some experimental features like changing the speed of the animations.
[11:08 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: So I could change the prop speed without loading a new animation.
[11:09 AM PT]  Bill Blight: animesh has no speed , it is animation driven
[11:09 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ctrl-Alt-Del ?
[11:09 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Is there a way we could do that on the server? Add a function that changes the speed of the next animation loaded,
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no nothing to do that
[11:09 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: so I don't have to have 10 animations to make the prop spin at 10 different speeds.
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: animations are viewer side
[11:09 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and nothing to tell viewers those things
[11:10 AM PT]  Bill Blight: considering you can do this with regular prims/mesh sounds like trying to re-invent the wheel ..
[11:10 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: ctrl-alt-del was a vewer project that had a 3D mode for the Occulus Rift.
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh -that one
[11:10 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I understand Occulus devices will show facebook ads intermittently
[11:11 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I was thinking it could be done server side by over-writing the frame rate while sending the animation to the viewer.
[11:11 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Then you could have variable running speed on avitars also.
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: animations where made for avatars only
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and on that very restricted use
[11:12 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Yeah, and making them for machines like this is turning out to be a pain.
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess animation rate is glued to avatar "walking speed"
[11:12 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: animesh was just a hack on top of that
[11:13 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: There are a bunch of undocumented rules, like you'd better have a mTorso and mChest bone, or all following bones will be moved out of position.
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and on top of tha avatar meshes hacks..
[11:13 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think animations actually will only run at 24-ish fps
[11:13 AM PT]  Bill Blight: I think forcing a change server side for animation and/or keyframes would make viewers explode ...
[11:13 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh? possible gavin.Hird
[11:14 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I seem to remember that from a discussion earlier this spring
[11:14 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL YT video
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: what server side change for animations?? there is no API  to viewers
[11:14 AM PT]  Bill Blight: viewers cache the anim, at and play it as so, until the animation actually changes the viewer would have to be changed to accept a variable on animations
[11:14 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: No Bill, I can build two animations with two different frame rates, load them in the viewer and it does not explode. Just asking for a way to send one animation with two frame rates does not change what the viewer gets.
[11:14 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just start stop basicly
[11:14 AM PT]  Bill Blight: yes 2 diff anims, not the same anim changing rates
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: animation are assets and those are immutable
[11:15 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: So you say the viewer would ignore the second send of the same animation. (That is not an explostion)
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so 2 dif rates on the bhv == 2 diferent assets
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: since there no api to change animation internals
[11:15 AM PT]  Bill Blight: even if you make 2 diff anims with the same rates, and same name, they would register as different assets
[11:15 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not even priority etc
[11:15 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, you have to do it with different assets
[11:17 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Bummer
[11:18 AM PT]  Kayaker Magic: OK, that is my question for the week. NEXT!
[11:19 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:19 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There were a few commits to the code repo this week but very few.
[11:19 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question if there isn't someone else who needs a question answered.
[11:19 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Mostly some assets were added.
[11:20 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, amvans.
[11:20 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but those were good assets...
[11:21 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have been trying for 2 weeks to establish a connection to a new region I created on the OS Grid. I can't seem to find help on why I can't get the connection opened.
[11:21 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, the commit doesn't say what they are so I have no idea what they are or why they were added. One would hope it is good stuff. :)
[11:21 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They are essential animations
[11:21 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have an eero connected to an Xfinity modem and I have tried port forwarding on both.
[11:22 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, you started with the ini settings provided by osgrid?
[11:22 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes...I went through the page step by step
[11:22 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: https://www.osgrid.org/helper_regions.php
[11:22 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but did you sync your inis with the osg ones?
[11:23 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm not sure I understand what that means...
[11:23 AM PT]  Bill Blight: couple things I think right away, if the eero and the xFinity are routing you could be double nat'd , or it is possible your router does not support loopback ..
[11:23 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, amvans said they used the ini settings from osgrid.
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure Andrew, but he still need to customize them for his installation
[11:24 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, you are using the IP address for your machine that is seen by the outside world?
[11:24 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as far as I remember, such as adding IP addresses, names, passwords, db connection strings...
[11:25 AM PT]  Bill Blight: in the region INI you need to make sure you use the PUBLIC ip , ExternalHostName, is set to your REAL external IP ..
[11:25 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, most of that will have already been set when making a region that will connect to the osgrid.
[11:25 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Do you know which settings need to be customized?  I can look again, but I thought that the process of setting up the software on my machine automatically did that because I had to give the installation my IP address.
[11:26 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: It specifically asks for my machine's IP address as part of the install script.
[11:26 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, That address needs to be the one that is assigned by your ISP, not an address of one of your machines within your local network.
[11:26 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: your machine's IP address on the inside of the router is not the same as the public address
[11:27 AM PT]  Bill Blight: to connect to the grid, it needs a real world IP for the ExternalHostName, not your machines IP
[11:27 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok, that's a question I asked before and was told it needed to be my machine since the software is running on my machine.
[11:28 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: So which IP address? The modem or the eero?
[11:28 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: No, it needs to be the address assigned by your ISP. It will be one known to the router.
[11:28 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok. I will try that. I still need to do the port forwarding as well?
[11:28 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: People outside your network connect first to your router and then get forwarded to your internal network.
[11:28 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, yes
[11:28 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and that address must be nat-ed to the ip of the real machine
[11:29 AM PT]  Bill Blight: there is InternalAddress and ExternalHostName, ExternalHostName should be your REALWORLD IP ...  if you don't know that,  you can go to , https://www.whatismyip.net , and it will show you the IP address ..
[11:29 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: If the IP address in the ini file starts with 192 or 10 you are using the wrong one.
[11:29 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok. This is really helpful!
[11:29 AM PT]  Bill Blight: except for InternalAddress
[11:30 AM PT]  Bill Blight: that can be 192 or 10 something or whatever your router is handing out ..
[11:31 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I usually use 0.0.0.0 for Internal Address in the region ini file but I'm only running a local standalone and not a region accessible outside my LAN.
[11:32 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I will try that and if I still have issues can I come back next week? I don't want to waste anyone's time with questions that are not appropriate for this forum. It's just that I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out and ran out of options.
[11:32 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: If the question(s) relate to OpenSim they are appropriate here.
[11:32 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Great!  Thanks so much.
[11:33 AM PT]  Bill Blight: Osgrid also has a meeting , I think on sunday, if you are still having issues, you can ask there ..
[11:33 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There is a user mailing list and a user IRC channel that you can use so you don't have to wait a week to come back here.
[11:34 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, Hm... I was thinking that gathering is on Saturday. I know I keep missing them. :)
[11:34 AM PT]  Bill Blight: also osgrid forums can be a great help
[11:34 AM PT]  Bill Blight: Saturday, yeah I think that is right ..
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok back form rl phone :)
[11:35 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: from also
[11:35 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked my groups. It is on Saturday at 11am in Hurliman Plaza. I'm not sure if they are every week or not.
[11:36 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The related group is OSGrid Town Hall Meeting.
[11:36 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Noted, thanks!
[11:36 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the assets i added are animations that so far most viewers did ship with
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: fundamental assets..
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like walk, fly etc..
[11:37 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: future viewers may not include them
[11:38 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: alos the special aim ones.. etc
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: some of those are still broken on main osgrid
[11:39 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: this region like all 0.9.2 by default load all opensim assets into flotsam
[11:40 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Whose next?
[11:40 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tp-ed here with it
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but that is a mess
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: viewers only ask those on demand
[11:41 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, tp'ed here with what?
[11:41 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well grid assets needs to have them
[11:41 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was the wrong window, but if you look around there is a clone of me in the scene
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but osgrid asset server is not core, so does not have them
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: at least for now
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: outch a clone of you? scary idea
[11:42 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, yes I see you standing outside this structure.
[11:42 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree that IS  a scary idea
[11:42 AM PT]  Bill Blight: sees ya all later ...
[11:42 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nahh that is a usa gavin.. not you
[11:43 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bill. tc. See you next week.
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( and young gavin )
[11:43 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cya bill
[11:43 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TC Bill
[11:44 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm what is the clone testing?
[11:44 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... that other Gavin appears to have come from the mirror universe. ;)
[11:44 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the pre OSG 2014 crash Gavin
[11:45 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, good. You got the reference. :)
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: never modded after
[11:45 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I just saw some fast moving clouds go by in the sky.
[11:45 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you look at the profile, you will see it is ancient
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (hmm amvans got help ? i was on phone )
[11:46 AM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes. I did, thanks!
[11:46 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cool
[11:46 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, it is about a day older than you.
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is a day older than me?
[11:47 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok and what is the clone testing?
[11:47 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, your clone is about 1 day older.
[11:47 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
[11:47 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That is like a chicken and egg problem. Which Gavin came first?
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but of course I faked that date on my grid, because the earliest run date I have for a standalone installation is in 2011
[11:48 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: mrs gavin, his mother
[11:48 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the OSG one came first
[11:49 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: That would make you the clone.
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: correct
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the clone of the other one made after the OSG 2014 crash
[11:49 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: is someone going to make a empire with Gavin clone troops also ?
[11:49 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: before that I really don't know what my standalone avatar looked like, haha
[11:50 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: errr the clones where republic army first no?
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok no star wars fans here..
[11:51 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[11:51 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:51 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:52 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:52 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: about those assets
[11:52 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The time has gone by quickly today. Almost at the top of the hour.
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: those 108 or 118 or something where the easy ones to list
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: more maybe needed
[11:53 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( if viewers do stop to ship with them... )
[11:54 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: If they are needed why would viewers not ship with them?
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: bc they decided so
[11:54 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think we ship with them, but there is a reference to the animation UUID
[11:54 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you do ship with them
[11:55 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, won't that break something on grids that don't have the assets?
[11:55 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will Andrew
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yes those viewers will not work
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well will
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the avatar will be in t-pose everywhere etc
[11:55 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: unless using a AO
[11:55 AM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Wouldn't be the first time a software upgrade broke something. :P
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer will work, but the avatar would be completely immobile
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: we know why the stopped shipping
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for them it is ok
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they always had those on gird assets also
[11:56 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where is the source tree do I have the anims?
[11:56 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: it is on the VFS bootstrap files
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: those *static.db2* files
[11:57 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they did ship them on the assets cache bootstrap or initialization files
[11:58 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never peaked inside those files
[11:58 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they replaced that assets cache.. so .. they are gone
[11:58 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have not done that yet
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: they will not botther converting that to the new asset cache
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL viewer pulled that code
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: when viewer can fetch them on demand
[11:59 AM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so only the FS beta has it
[11:59 AM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah fs 6.4.20 is the only one with that issue now
[12:00 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: I'm running FS 6.4.20, and this explains a lot of animation problems I am having.
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would think Kayaker
[12:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and tp fails also :p
[12:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour. If there isn't any last minute items it is time to wrap the meeting for today.
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe not be on the bleeding edge always
[12:00 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I appreciate the help. See you again soon.
[12:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Good luck, amvans.
[12:00 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you.
[12:00 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hope you get it working
[12:01 PM PT]  Kayaker Magic: Good skill also!
[12:01 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I guess I will be here next week if not. :)
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cya
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: or be here even if works
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:01 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Or if so and I run into the next problem
[12:01 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: You can come back here next week whether you have or have not fixed the problem.
[12:01 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know...you guys are great.
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: hmm yes we are
[12:01 PM PT]  amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye for now.
[12:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wee opps ego moment
[12:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, I will call this one done and dusted.
[12:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nahh nahhh
[12:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you still need to dust the floor and chairs
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: clean all sit places with alchool etc
[12:03 PM PT]  Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye everyone
[12:03 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: cya sleby
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: selby.Evans
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