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[11:04 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: hi all [11:05 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker [11:05 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Hello all! Dev Outreach is BACK! [11:06 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: /clap clap clap [11:06 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:06 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that was a doozey of an outage, glad its back up [11:07 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: was it an asset database problem? [11:07 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats what I read [11:07 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:07 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok hello, sorry im behind lol [11:08 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: and people think they will "solve" the asset problems to going to blockchains.... [11:08 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: really [11:08 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: smh [11:08 AM PT] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:08 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: hi selby [11:08 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby [11:08 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hey selby [11:09 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh MrBlue might know about the physics lsl function issue [11:09 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Interesting question that SetForce, it's supposed to apply a force to the root part of the parent group, which is the avatar essentially. ApplyImpulse on the other hand applies force just to the object the script is in. I used to have a landmine script somewhere that would throw you into the air, so applying force to an avatar is possible, guessing it just doesn't use the correct scope when attached [11:09 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject works [11:09 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but llSetForce does not [11:10 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hmm [11:10 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: same on bullet and ubode [11:11 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that is, not working when worn as an attachment [11:11 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: PushObject calls ApplyImpulse on the object, SetForce just applies a force to it, guess that's different [11:12 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: should I open a bug report on that? [11:12 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can push object move avatars? It seems to be checking for that in the implementation [11:12 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The function name says object so I wouldn't expect it to move an avatar. [11:12 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes [11:13 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject on a worn object does move the avatar [11:13 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: there would be, at least, a bunch of permission checks on pushing avatars [11:13 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but only momentarily as designed [11:14 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would be really useful for things like parachutes, anti-gravity etc [11:14 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It does AddForce on avatars [11:14 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which is different from SetForce [11:14 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I don't have vs code open so can't check what difference that makes [11:15 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llSetForce(, 0) does nothing when object is attachment [11:15 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The wiki page for the function says the object needs to be marked physical. [11:15 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: correct, [11:16 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes I made it physical and call lsl to turn on physics too [11:16 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [11:16 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: shall I open ticket on that? [11:17 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hm [11:19 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: wanted to check here forst in case there is a known issue or I'm forgetting something stupid [11:19 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The only implementation of SetForce is SceneObjectPart, which I am not sure if that includes avatars directly [11:20 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: AddForce is implemented on the physics actors so that's why that works [11:20 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that might explain why it works on objects not worn [11:20 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: OdeCharacter has no SetForce [11:21 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Yes, file a ticket. [11:21 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, will do. Thanks for taking a look [11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It says AddForce is meant to set a target velocity [11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That seems odd [11:22 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It does just add a momentary force doesn't, just pushes you up and then you fall again [11:23 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've used it on worn objects in Havok and it is a constant force [11:24 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So PushObject works the way you need for say a parachute, just SetForce is meant to as well? [11:24 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject is only momentary [11:24 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a timer works but is bumpy and not server-friendly [11:25 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ah okay [11:25 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llSetForce is supposed to be the way to get constant force [11:26 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: unless someone knows of another way [11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As in that constantly pushes you in a certain direction I presume [11:26 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: I think objects just have the attribute "velocity" so adding or setting the force mostly modifies the velocity (and direction of that velocity) [11:27 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: In my case Im only applying it in the z-direction for such things as parachutes etc [11:27 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Velocity should be absolute and directionless so it just tells how much you are moving, not where, think the return type of that is a float [11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: There is a SetAcceleration in here that takes a vector input [11:28 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it seems that would make more sense with acceleration [11:28 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: absolute velocity is a float but, in the physics engines, it is a vector (direction and magnitude) [11:29 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: there is some inconsistancies with the application of all the different way to change force/acceleration/direction/... [11:30 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: so adding a Mantis entry would start the wider discussion about what really should be happening [11:31 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: maybe that means we need to find someone who has time to re-evaluate the force related methods and bring them all into a more unified method. ive still got my team rebuilding the whole world and viewer from scratch so i know they understand how all the pieces work together before i try putting them back on OS code [11:33 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: once they can make a viewer able to interact successfully with a very basic test world then they can try reconnecting to hg [11:33 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well since llPushObject is working on a scripted attachment I was hoping it wouldn't be a big jump for llSetForce() [11:33 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I feared it might have already been implemented unless there was a bigger issue [11:33 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll open a mantis [11:34 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: would this be a physics engine issue or lsl issue? [11:35 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Good question. [11:35 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll mark mantis as a physics engine issue for now [11:35 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Go with physics engine. [11:35 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make a lsl issue initially and I guess it can be changed if needed [11:36 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll mark it as lsl issue, can be changed later [11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'll fiddle around with that code a bit maybe I can get some more info on what these functions do [11:39 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Vincent. [11:40 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: and the different physics engines will implement things differently so be specific on which one you're using [11:43 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've been testing it in the different OSG sandboxes with diff physics engines, same result [11:43 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but my grid is using bullet [11:43 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hm ubode implements a SetAcceleration, Bullet does not weird [11:46 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: for whatever reasons, physics implementation is spread between the simulator, the c# physics code, and the underlying C physics code. The different implementations of the C# and C physics code have always done things a little differently [11:48 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:48 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. Any other topic(s) for today? [11:49 AM PT] Jagga Meredith: I fixed my toilet!! [11:50 AM PT] Jagga Meredith: not particularly relevant but I live a lonely life and noplace else to brag about it [11:50 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to have a working one to save you digging a hole in your backyard. :) [11:51 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: I hate working on toilets. Here in the US we have flappers and leaks. I would like the European solution that seems to be reliable enough to embed in the wall [11:51 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Not a lot to report regarding changes to the OpenSim code. this past week. There was a fair number of commits but most of them appear to be related to code cleanup. [11:52 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: lol glad its fixed jaggaa [11:52 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: There were some changes to the simulatorFeatures cap. [11:52 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: and I have been tweaking on PreBuild to allow it to process projects in "netstandard2_0" and "net6" [11:52 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: had to do that myself a time or 2\ [11:52 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Another texture was added that is used by eep. [11:52 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: someday the simulator will be updated to the newer build systems [11:54 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: There was also one minor bug fix to osParcelSubdivide. It won't do anything if there isn't a match to the entire original parcel. [11:54 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: misterblue - now youve gotme thinking of nickleback - "someday, somehow" [11:54 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Not quite sure what that is meant to say. [11:55 AM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: newer code bases maybe? or new physis engines? [11:55 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Someday, somehow, somewhere reminds me of another song. Looking it up it is from West Side Story. [11:56 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to see the viewer use a newer build system. [11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There is also Somewhere Over the Rainbow [11:56 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: it is true that such a project is probably big enough that it will probably never happen... but I want to keep my hopes up [11:56 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The main OS code base uses a simple build system by comparison to that used in the viewer. [11:56 AM PT] Misterblue Waves: I'm using the new build frameworks for addon_modules and not changing the simulator proper [11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol [11:59 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Any news about the physics engine or viewer worth mentioning before we wrap up todays meeting? [11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL is working on a completely new cap for profiles [12:00 PM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not here [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure what it means for viewer compatibility quite yet [12:00 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: That could have an impact on the profile modules. [12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am also nearing the point with my rework where I will fork it and add back the opensim code [12:01 PM PT] Misterblue Waves is unsure about the relationship between LL and the third-party viewers [12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely will impact profiles [12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 98% of the code in the TPV is LL code [12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: inseparable [12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can you add the pushobject method to the mantis so I got something to test against [12:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Cause I am not getting any movement out of it [12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, has LL said anything about what they have in mind for profiles? [12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The bulk of TPV code is UI modding [12:02 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are re-implementing the classic profiles, but served via a cap [12:02 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty [12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the classic profiles in the current viewers are primarily FS code [12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they are doing away with that [12:04 PM PT] Misterblue Waves: i'm off. take care all!! [12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a good one [12:04 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Misterblue. Thanks for being here. [12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc mrblue gtsy [12:05 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: You picked a good day as there was some physics related questions [12:05 PM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: im heading out too, got to get back on the road to the office [12:05 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Michael. Thanks for being here. [12:05 PM PT] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hasve a great week and tty soon!\ [12:05 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the top of the hour. If there is nothing more for today I will wrap up todays meeting. [12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm heading out too.. Take care all! [12:06 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Cuga. [12:06 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, RL is calling me also [12:06 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: With people needing to go I will call this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [19:07 UTC] *** Logging stopped. ***